Can Red & Blue America Avoid Divorce? | Greg Smith, Sage Snider, & David Lapp - Braver Angels

Can Red & Blue America Avoid Divorce? | Greg Smith, Sage Snider, & David Lapp


Greg Smith, a blue-collar Ohioan and Trump voter, and Sage Snider, a Nashville musician and Biden voter, became friends through Braver Angels. Greg is deeply worried for America after President Biden’s inauguration; Sage is hopeful. In this candid and heartfelt conversation, they join Braver Angels cofounder David Lapp to discuss their thoughts on unity and what it will take for reds and blues to save the Union. (Be sure to listen all the way to the end to find out how they really feel about each other!)

About the guests: Greg is a former police chief and the founding co-chair of the first-ever Braver Angels Alliance. Sage is a musician, and the founding director of cultural engagement for Braver Angels.

Twitter: @sagesnider, @braverangels

More to explore

A Braver Way Beat 4

Beat | How to navigate political fear

Political violence and heightened rhetoric has turned up the intensity of an already tumultuous election season, adding to the fears and uncertainty on both the Left and the Right. Is there a way to stay grounded through this moment? We are joined by Dr. Bill Doherty, a “citizen therapist” who offers insight to help understand not just our own fear, but the fears held by the other side, and shares concrete strategies people on all sides can use to give voice to our deepest concerns without succumbing to the most dangerous tendencies of our divided nation.

Read More »
A Braver Way Episode 12

Episode 12: How to Citizen

Is it the facts that get in the way in our politics, or our stories? Baratunde Thurston is a renowned comedian, activist, and PBS host who knows a lot about how the stories we tell about ourselves can either unlock our civic power… or make us forget we even have it. We’ll zoom in on two unforgettable times Baratunde crossed big divides and what those clashes can teach us, and we’ll hear his four pillars of “how to citizen” — as a verb, not a noun — to help us wield that power daily. Then Monica and April close us out with a clash of their own, unleashing their own stories about citizenship to see where their different politics lead them to think differently about the concept and the many issues that surround it.

Read More »

6 thoughts on “Can Red & Blue America Avoid Divorce? | Greg Smith, Sage Snider, & David Lapp”

  1. Kelly Jackson

    Sage, that was a beautiful story about the song, I think that made a really powerful point.

  2. This video touched me. It gave me Hope for less splitting of Our Culture and More Working Together to make It Better. (Better than ever before)
    I feel that I can work equally well with David, Sage and Greg. Both represent valid positions of Beliefs and Principles. I believe that these Beliefs and Principles have a point where they will complement each other to enable a stronger than ever condition for Our Nation. And I agree with them, that music can play a very important role in this process.

    It is encouraging to witness their Willingness to Work out healthy compromises for the Best Governance of the United States. Their “Heart is in the Right Place”…a big place with room to maneuver for the sake of Most Of Us.

    My name is Daniel Jones. I am a 76 year old “white” male that has often been on the fringe of mainstream society…in my Life and Beliefs. By many definitions of the term, I am Truly “Radical”.

    One example of what I mean, when I write this is: I believe the concept and practice of Democracy would be Better Served by More than two political parties. For one thing the “polarities” would be softened and Reason would have a greater part in the Ideas of Governance of Our Nation. There would be less “head to head” stasis and More “Healthy” flow of Good Heart and Mind. Though We would have to learn to manage multiple source flows of Ideas.

    Anyway. I like what’s happening with “Braver Angels” and support it.

  3. Thank you for sharing your poignant story about the split with your band over music choice, Sage. That story did a remarkable job of demonstrating on a personal level some of what I think we are experiencing as a nation. I really appreciated the story and your thoughtfulness around it. And I appreciate the entire Braver Angels community for continuing to have these conversations and sharing them via podcast. Thank you!

    1. Wow, thank you Laura. That’s the first time I’ve told that story, and I was pretty terrified about sharing it. I know we’re all experiencing this rift at every level of our personal and national life–and I’m both sad and relieved that it resonated. Thanks for listening 🙂

  4. Interesting conversation. I would have been interested in hearing more from Sage. Out of curiosity, I timed the amount each spoke. Greg spoke for 32.7 minutes and Sage for 17.6 minutes. In other words, Greg spoke almost twice as much as Sage. It seems to me that a part of fostering respectful conversation is recognizing dynamics like this.

Leave a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Braver Angels Support