Ciaran O’Connor convenes Hawk Newsome, co-founder of Black Lives Matter of Greater New York; David Iwinski, a Trump supporter who helps lead Braver Angels Debates; and Dr. Tess Russell, an anesthesiologist and intensive care specialist at Columbia New York Presbyterian Hospital for a raw and wide-ranging discussion on trust, science, and the COVID vaccine.
Twitter: @braverangels, @ciaranjoconnor, @IamHawkNewsome, @davidiwinski, @CortessaRussell
Listen or watch the podcast below. You can also find it on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
10 thoughts on “A BLM Leader, a Trump Supporter, & an ICU Doctor Talk Vaccines | Hawk Newsome, David Iwinski, & Dr. Tess Russell with Ciaran O’Connor”
I’d have to say that “public health vs. personal liberty” is a false dichotomy. Kind of like economic security vs. freedom. We cannot ensure absolute public health against this vaccine, but we can surrender esssential freedoms.
I don’t see how it is a dichotomy at all. We have the freedom to choose the vaccine and requirements are comparable to many other public health and private business restrictions. And nothing can ensure “absolute public health”, so, I’m just not following your logic.
This is a frustrating process to watch. People feel the need to hold their perspective no matter what. The need to be right is the problem with our current discourse. It is crucial to be heard, seen and given credence. It is also crucial to be able to see facts and be able to reframe our perspectives. That is the way forward. There is a great deal of resistance and I would add hubris that stands in the way of changing perspective and it costs everyone. So if you distrust, then what guides you forward? What is your vision? To what are you committed? Another set of questions focuses on where is the respect for the data provided by the caregiver who speaks? Was she manipulating these two men? Why do they not embrace what she says? Why not get curious about her perspective? Her truth? Sexism? The need to hold their beliefs at any cost?
Actually, having watched the whole podcast I take back my statements, above. Well done.
According to FactCheck.org, the data on the COVID vaccine has been peer reviewed. In the interest of providing accurate information, I felt it necessary to point that out.
As I was listening to this video, I truly appreciate the candidness of all three speakers. I did have a couple of issues however. First, the BLM activist said he would not get the vaccine because he didn’t want that stuff in his body, yet he wants his son to get it and suggested it for his mother. I’m a little confused about that. Secondly, the Trump supporter stated at 36:36 in the video that the current President and Vice-President flat out stated they would not take the vaccine when they were campaigning… and now have changed their tune while in office. I presume he got this information from videos that have been circulating around social media. I think there is enough fact checking organizations that have shown that the videos circulating show sound bites and are misleading.
This was pathetic and so clearly biased towards the narrative that I’ve lost pretty much all the respect I thought I had for the Braver Angels initiative. There are myriad doctors, scientists, virologists, public health specialists, and immunologists that have raised tremendous valid scientific issues with the vaccines, much less the anti-science mandates for pushing these leaky experimental vaccines on everyone in a one size fits all policy. Not to mention that all the actual science studies show that natural immunity is at least as and likely more robust and durable than vaccine induced immunity. By only including a clearly metabolically unhealthy “Trump supporter” and just some guy on the questioning the vaccine side, and a doctor on the other, you’ve clearly not remotely tried to represent this fairly. The lack of mention of any actual science, and just a bunch of emotional anecdotes, the overall episode was ridiculous and worthless. What a disappointment. You could have at least included any of many examples of nurses and doctors who worked in New York ERs who is so against the vaccines based on what they personally saw that they have been willing to be fired and lose their careers.
That was a great podcast. Really interesting views and points–well done Braver Angels!
This was a good exchange of information. It is great that people with different life experiences were able to share their perspectives in respectful manners. Is there a way that BA can bring opposing medical scientists, vaccinologists, virologists, ICU doctors such as the FLCCC to give the hard data that debates the efficacy of the vaccine?
This podcast is a great start, but there is so much data and science out there is that is being suppressed. One has to ask why our country that represents 4.25% of the world’s population has almost 1/4 of the Covid deaths in the world?
First of all each speaker made some very valid points. I did find issue with a couple of things from each speaker. I heard Hawk say that trust could be established by giving out free drugs. Really? He dissed J&J and said that is what was being pushed to black people. I am not sure how accurate that is… Wasn’t J&J the first one approved – and that may be the real reason it was pushed. Maybe that location purchased all J&J. Last – he said older black people easier to convince. However, I think older people in general were told they should get it because they were high risk. David – went back and forth with I won’t get it unless I have to get it.. but I work from home… Take a stand you are ok with it or not. Suppression is more than from the gov’t… I think a great deal of that is social media. I am not sure where he gets his info and sounds like only the partial story. Dr. Russell – she grabbed at our heart strings with her experience. But she did a pretty good job of just making some points and not to convince.. but just another side. Times different, polio, working from home, and under-reporting I thought were all good points. Overall I think it was a good podcast and discussion with the speakers. I think we can ALL agree mandates are wrong.